Curse

Mr_T_bot · Feb 23, 2007, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthulhu reborn

A very good point here is the lack of proper rewards...what is the point of an inscribed secret or those ancient artifacts or wahtever if it gets you the same as you get from the smugglers at the command post for those kournan coins. That was such a disappointment to find out. The DoA golds (be it at a ridiculous cost) are more like it if you ask me. RoT should've had that. Why do all my characters finish Elona and Cantha? Cause even after finishing it x amount of times I can still get a reward with my next character: an endgame green. Guess why half my characters haven't finished Prophecies...exactly, no reward.

I have finished Prophecies with all my characters because there is a proper build up of difficulty leading to the end of the game and a proper game flow. I have only finished Factions on one character, because I hate the build-up and flow required to get to the end - the big city areas are packed with disproportionately powerful mobs and confusing paths, then you have to go around and do tedious quests in Echovald Forrest or the Jade Sea in order to get through the game. The only reason I did it the first time is probably because I already had the faction required from pre-release events.

Fender · Feb 23, 2007, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by sibila

three of the maps are very easy, why? ... because anet gave you an extra six henchmen, this means your total fighting force is 14 in these areas.

if you cannot complete a map with 1+3heroes+10henchmen then you need to have a good look at your gaming style.

wtf are you talking about?!? RoT has a party size of 8.

Evilsod · Feb 23, 2007, 04:59 PM // 16:59

He does have a good point when it comes to the quests. The master quests in Nightfall aren't for the truly leet players. They're for people who want to use gimmick builds or to abuse it in some way.

Look at the first Master Quest in RoT. The quest is basically 'To The Rescue' in DoA without a good place to tank and no retarded NPC you MUST keep alive. The only reason why i bother to do it is because you can capture Jagged Bones from the boss without having to travel round half of Depths of Madness.

I'd have to say they really did flex there stupidity muscle a bit with RoT. The general sort of mob i have no problems with. But the 4x Rain Torment mobs are just retarded, without mass interrupt or protective spirit/Shelter on everything they'll deep freeze spike your entire team. A challenge is 1 thing but seriously... those mobs are barely even possible with a general sort of team.
They concentrate way too much on just loading enemies up with insane amounts of damage and limitless energy with maybe the odd ridiculous monster skill thrown in to make it actually fun. Instead of having good tactics or skillbars they just move in and rely on 'its them or us'.

sibila · Feb 23, 2007, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by garethporlest18

I cleared every area, except Domain of Fear because it's ridiculously hard with all the tight packed groups. There are over 9 groups right outside the entrance, in that open area there..all with patrol movements that aggro into another patrol and a nice little ele boss that can wipe your team in under 10 seconds unless you're prepared for it (if you have DP, one spell= your whole team annihilated). I barely made it past that, then you have more bosses and patrols that overlap, stupid idea in my opinion because they don't pull very good either, especially when you have a 11 second Mind Freeze on you.

.

hi

i have already posted in this thread, but the Domain of Fear is a map which is very easy to complete all quests in.

as i stated earlier you are given 6 extra henchmen in this area, thus making it very easy to fight 2-3 groups of monsters at once.

the only time i found this area to be a challenge was when i visited it for the first time with my ele ... but i learn quick! ... so the next 4 charactors that i completed the game with knew how to use the 'oddbodies' to there advantage.

.....

also why are there so many posts mixing the areas of Realm of Torment and Domain of Anquish up? .... these two areas are totally different, one is an Story area and the other is an Elite area.

sibila · Feb 23, 2007, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fender

wtf are you talking about?!? RoT has a party size of 8.

lol .... some gamers will always be sheep and others will do the thinking for them.

wynoski · Feb 23, 2007, 05:44 PM // 17:44

I too got spanked my first time into ROT, but now, I can easily walk through this area with just nenchies. I pull out my long bow (Ia m a necro) and run back...

In fact the last time I had trouble is whe I went witha guildie and he kept "leroying".

I think the trouble some people have with the RoT is that the previous areas of nightfall are not terribly challenging with the possible exception of the Dune carvers who wipe through the minion armies

Its not like steeping foot into Kaineng city after noob island or LA...that was definitly a huge step up mid game

Kelson · Feb 23, 2007, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fender

wtf are you talking about?!? RoT has a party size of 8.

He's talking about using this quest to help clear the area:
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/The_Oddbodies_%28Quest%29

While this is possible, it's clearly not designed to be the only way to clear the area.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sibila

lol .... some people will always be sheep and others will do the thinking for them.

Punctuation, grammar, then maybe your attempts at bragging about "thinking" can be taken seriously.

Just because you used information clearly stated on the wiki page to complete what is quite possible otherwise is no reason to start bragging.

Just keeping in line with the "Flame War" aspect of the thread.

sibila · Feb 23, 2007, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelson

He's talking about using this quest to help clear the area:
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/The_Oddbodies_%28Quest%29

While this is possible, it's clearly not designed to be the only way to clear the area.

Punctuation, grammar, then maybe your attempts at bragging about "thinking" can be taken seriously.

Just because you used information clearly stated on the wiki page to complete what is quite possible otherwise is no reason to start bragging.

Just keeping in line with the "Flame War" aspect of the thread.

....

nobody is bragging, as i stated already i learn quickly.

that link to the oddbodies page is the first time i have seem it, so no i did'nt get the infomation of that page, trial and error is how i have henched all missions.

like most gamers i learn from my mistakes.

Gli · Feb 23, 2007, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Mmm... are those the quest that were added later? My first character never got those when I first arrived at the RoT.

lightblade · Feb 23, 2007, 06:20 PM // 18:20

"Throwing Uber monsters in front of players" is ALWAYS part of the game. You just don't notice it because the curve of difficulty is gradual. The reason that people find RoT to be difficult is because the curve at that part turned steep.

Out of the three games in the series, Faction did the best job in term of difficulty curve. The increase in difficulty of the game is almost linear. Prophacies had a sharp difficulty change when you first get out of post-searing Ascalon and arrive at Yak's Bend. This is where you first encounter the dwarves and find yourself doing significantly less damage.

Mr_T_bot · Feb 23, 2007, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightblade

Out of the three games in the series, Faction did the best job in term of difficulty curve.

What are you smoking? You start on an independent island, and quests included, you are lucky to make level 20 before you leave and as soon as you leave you are tossed at some of the most absurdly disproportionately powerful monsters in the game - Jade Knights. And that is discounting the surprise attack Am Fah and the auto-explosion on die corrupted critters.

Quote:

The increase in difficulty of the game is almost linear. Prophacies had a sharp difficulty change when you first get out of post-searing Ascalon and arrive at Yak's Bend. This is where you first encounter the dwarves and find yourself doing significantly less damage.

The only way Prophecies' difficulty curve isn't linear is if you rushed through everything so arn't at a proper level or with proper items. In fact, the difficult curve is below linear, not on par with it because you easily end up out leveling the monsters of the area until you reach the desert.

Zorglubb · Feb 23, 2007, 06:42 PM // 18:42

RoT is quite doable with henchies, but IMO it's an annoying area where I go only when obligated by the plot:
- reward/time ratio is just no good
- graphics aren't encouraging tourism
And to boot, this place is dark. I hate dark places. Why do end-game areas have to be dark? The only not-dark end areas I can think of are UW, FoW and the Kaineng Palace, which incidentally are the only ones I'm still roaming.

garethporlest18 · Feb 23, 2007, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by sibila

hi

i have already posted in this thread, but the Domain of Fear is a map which is very easy to complete all quests in.

as i stated earlier you are given 6 extra henchmen in this area, thus making it very easy to fight 2-3 groups of monsters at once.

the only time i found this area to be a challenge was when i visited it for the first time with my ele ... but i learn quick! ... so the next 4 charactors that i completed the game with knew how to use the 'oddbodies' to there advantage.

I don't need help with that area. I beat it just fine and I'll continue to beat it just fine because I'm good. Granted what I meant was that it's ridiculously hard in the fact that if you make one wrong move you're gone. Those were also my first times there, so I was kinda ranting about that from then, now.

{BHC}KingWarman88 · Feb 23, 2007, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Hey,

I do like the 8 man squards, give you more fun when doing stuff..

wilebill · Feb 23, 2007, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Well, I read the post, not really a review. I don't really understand what the problem is. First time out in RoT with my first char through Nightfall, I got owned quite a bit. Then I adapted my build and my playing style to RoT, no more problems. Some areas of RoT are difficult, others are not. I'm a fairly mediocre player, but I could do most of Domain of Secrets with a Paragon and three heroes.

IMHO, the problem here is not with RoT. The problem is with this guy expecting everything to be easy. Just hit attack and watch as all the monsters drop dead. All games need some hard spots. All games have them. The blogger here is by my definition of things, whining ... and his slam against GW is completely out of place and totally unjust ... and just plain silly.

I play WoW too. Especially for a solo player, WoW has some really tough quests here and there, at almost every level. I would love to give pages of examples of how mean and cruel and vicious the WoW game devs are, but you be laughing yourselves to death at my expense. Can't have that. And you who have played EVE Online or other online games can think of examples from there too.

brokenmonkey · Feb 23, 2007, 07:43 PM // 19:43

WOOOT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT =/

Come on, You think one persons opinion makes a HUGE difference? I don't like the Falls because its confusing, now that doesn't mean that its a bad place.

So what, he had a bad time, he should have had a candy cane =/

mqstout · Feb 23, 2007, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

Do you rarely play, or do you just suck a lot? Likely the former, I'm merely curious.

We get about 6 hours in a week together.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

Bringing a single skill--hell, you even have a choice of three (Wild Blow, Wild Strike, Wild Throw)--does not a gimmicky build make.

It's still a "you have to bring one particular skill" thing. Just like in that one elite mission you have to bring Rebirth (unless everyone has the self-teleport skills).

Quozz · Feb 23, 2007, 08:45 PM // 20:45

I don't agree with Ryan's assessment of the difficulty of RoT nor with his rage about all of GW just because of that one area. However, his blog does reveal an underlying problem with the PVE experience. The problem is how uneven the missions and quests are in quality/fun factor. At some point the designers decided to use overpowered skills/greater numbers/specialized monster skills/environmental effects or some combination of those 4 as the way to create challenge. Its a bad move as it only creates frustration. They started down this path in Factions and continued in Nightfall with the latest example being DoA (quite possibly the worst game area ever conceived).

Anet needs to take a step back and take a different route in creating PVE challenges.

Orbberius · Feb 23, 2007, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Having just listened to the podcast, I have to say, that guy sounds like a goddamn weenie. He's played the game for hundreds of hours yet he never learned how to play it.

Now, if he had posted from the perspective of a casual player, for instance a player whose first chapter is Nightfall, I could understand. These casual players haven't had the time and hundreds of hours to understand the game well, and something that might be easy to more experienced players is probably excrutiating for them.

Feminist Terrorist · Feb 23, 2007, 09:23 PM // 21:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by WoodyDotNet

I don’t read Games for Windows either, so I don’t know this guy. I DO read PC Gamer and it gave Nightfall it’s MMO of the Year award and one of its editors, Kristen Salvatore, loves the game. Maybe she can give this guy a few tips.

Ahh, so that's where she went. Salvatore used to work at CGW/GFW. Guess PC Gamer gave her a better opportunity.

I was thinking, this morning, about the RoT. I have a bunch of chars to still get through NF, but if I bother to take them that far, I'm not doing the side quests. I really can't be bothered. Didn't do them with my necro, who I pushed through in order to finish the game.

I think, as time goes on, and more of us have more characters, many will feel less compelled to take every character through each new game. In fact, my monk is sitting NF out, for now.